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== Problems with functionize in general ==

The functionize-based utilities are discontinuous about the way they detect underscores: The body can use _ three times, or two times, or one time, but as soon as it uses _ zero times, it means something completely different. Thanks to this, I can break several layers of code by making a single local edit. But will I? Yes:

The 'treemem function detects occurrences of _ without regard for quoting or local scopes. So if I use an _ to activate one functionize-based utility, then I'll accidentally activate all the other functionize-based utilities which surround that one. If I want to avoid refactoring several layers of code each time I edit, I pretty much have two options:

- I can avoid putting an _ anywhere in my code, in which case this functionize feature won't be very useful to me.

- I can make sure to activate each and every functionize utility as soon as I use it, in which case they would have been better off as 'let variants. For instance, I might settle on the idiom (zap (do '_ ...) foo), but it would be more convenient to say (zaplet orig foo ...).

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== Problems in Arc ==

Your Anarki commit is one of those things that is "guaranteed to break all your code." Personally, I like using the pattern (zap [map [...] _] args), which now breaks since the _ activates zap's automatic function wrapper. It seems you would want me to write (zap (map [...] _) args) instead, but for compatibility with Rainbow, Jarc, etc., I think I'll define a macro (itfn ...) and write (zap (itfn:map (itfn:...) it) args). Effectively, I'll be recreating the [...] functionality in the way I like.

Meanwhile, Arc already covers a lot of the functionality of Clojure's -> and ->> operators using (aand ...). If you still miss -> or ->>, I recommend just implementing an 'aand variant that doesn't short-circuit on nil. Call it 'ado or something.

Here's how to use 'aand/'ado with the examples from that thread you linked to (http://arclanguage.org/item?id=18044):

  (-> (range) [map [* _ _] _] [filter even? _] [take 10 _] [reduce + _])
  (-> 5 [+ _ 3] [/ 2 _] [- 1 _])
  
  (ado (range) (map [* _ _] it) (filter even? it) (take 10 it) (reduce + it))
  (aand 5 (+ it 3) (/ 2 it) (- 1 it))

== Considerations in Wart ==

Clojure's -> and ->> operators are not infix, and that might be good for their indentation. I'm not really sure.

  (-> (...)
    (...)
    (...
      ...)
    (...))
  
  (...) ->
    (...) ->
    (...
      ...) ->
    (...)
  
  (...)
    -> (...)
    -> (...
         ...)
    -> (...)

  (...)
    -> (...)
    ->> (...
          ...)
    -> (...)

I can only defend myself against the wart section :) In wart the pipe operator can only take two args and is intended to be used in infix. I use a non-infix transform for more args, and for prefix mode in general: https://github.com/akkartik/wart/commit/ec0f9a38b8

Oh, so you're pursuing both options at once. I look forward to you figuring out what kind of indentation you prefer here. :) My "considerations about wart" section was only wishy-washy anyway.

---

"For the rest, my weak defense is that functionize and the _ syntax is only intended for tiny expressions."

In Penknife, when I used the a'b operator as sugar for (b a), I found I ended up with a few really long lines of a.b.c'd'e.f, so it kinda suffered from its own success. ^_^ My a'b is the same as your (a -> b._), and it exactly corresponds to your no-underscore special case, (a -> b), so I expect you to have the same issue.

I suspect these syntaxes actually have a special tendency to let sugar accumulate, driving them away from the ideal "tiny expressions" case. Specifically, they make it possible to inject new code without breaking apart the surrounding sugar first:

  a.b.f.c.d                  # before refactoring
  a.b."foo".c.d              # illegal
  a.b -> (_ "foo") -> _.c.d  # legal? (not quite the example you gave)
  a.b'[itfn:it s.foo].c.d    # Penknife code of similar generality

Here's my current thinking: https://github.com/akkartik/wart/blob/aec0af2676/082macex.wa...

"these syntaxes actually have a special tendency to let sugar accumulate, driving them away from the ideal "tiny expressions" case."

Definitely. The wart example you gave is indeed legal, but the actual _ expression is still simple, even though the chain is long.

It seems nested expressions often work fine because each macro only wraps its arg and leaves the rest to the inside.

  (zap (map car._ _) (list list.1 list.2)
  => (zap (fn(_) (map car._ _)) ..)
  => (zap (fn(_) (map (fn(_) car._) _)) ..)

Some other concrete examples I came up with of the problems you pointed out:

  (zap (cons? & (fn(_) ..)) ..)  # broken by nested scope
  (zap (cons? & (fn(x) (+ '_ car.x)) ..)  # broken by quoting

  (mac functionize (expr)
    (if (and (treemem '_ ssexpand.expr)
             (~caris expr 'make-br-fn)
             (~caris expr 'fn))
      `(fn(_) ,expr)
      expr))

  arc> (= x '((1) (2) (3)))
  arc> (zap [map [car _] _] x)
  arc> x
  (1 2 3)